How I lost ~4 BTC on Lightning Network

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INWHY Today at 7:53 AM
am I able to loose money after force-closing channels?
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 7.51.16.png
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 7.51.16.png

50 replies

Will O'Beirne 2 hours ago
Yes, if you force close using an older invalid state, they can take the money while it's timelocked if their node is online.

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INWHY 2 hours ago
wow... looks like I lost 4BTC

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INWHY 2 hours ago
because my LND wasn't syncronised, that's weird (edited)

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moli 2 hours ago
#reckless :rekt:

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INWHY 2 hours ago
it was buggy and stuck...

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moli 2 hours ago
to be frank this isn't the first time i've seen you with the same issue of carelessly locking so much money on useless nodes and then decided to just mass close them all

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INWHY 2 hours ago
I've used the default closeallchannels --force function, nothing else, to be frank. (edited)

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INWHY 2 hours ago
also, my node wasn't useless, but one of the biggest in the network, called LIGHTNING-CASINO.COM

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moli 2 hours ago
ah this time it's worse because you force closed from an older state

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moli 2 hours ago
you know it's a "no-no", right? because it's a breach

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INWHY 2 hours ago
I've force-closed from a backup, because there was a power outage, then why the "no-no" function is ever available?! (edited)

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moli 2 hours ago
how old was the backup?

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INWHY 2 hours ago
few days prior, but after force-closing them the LND got stuck without synchronising the graph

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INWHY 1 hour ago
I'm working as a system administrator, have some server knowledge and I bet that everybody who have bigger node will face the same issues, it happens only when you close* you channels, openings are fine

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moli 1 hour ago
so the backup is a few days old? even a few minutes or hours old , they can cause a breach, that's how it is

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INWHY 1 hour ago
then how to proceed if the channel graph file is broken? that happened after updating from vulnerable LND 6.1 to 7.1 beta

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INWHY 1 hour ago
@moli if "few minutes" old backup can cause a breach, that means that LND doesn't support backups at all, am I right? make backups and after 10 minutes they are old and unusable... (edited)

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moli 1 hour ago
@INWHY since the beginning of lnd and lightning network, we've been told not to do backups

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moli 1 hour ago
channel state is very dynamic you can't back it up like any static files

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INWHY 1 hour ago
what's the purpose of the backup functions then?

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moli 1 hour ago
what backup functions?

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INWHY 1 hour ago
exportchanbackup and restorechanbackup

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moli 1 hour ago
that is different

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INWHY 1 hour ago
I have those files

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moli 1 hour ago
those files are for recovery, but you said you did a backup of the data directory .lnd and you ran it after a power outage?

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INWHY 1 hour ago
yes, am I able to use those recovery SCB files?

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INWHY 1 hour ago
also, they are 3 different types, JSON one, binary one, and 2nd type of binary one

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moli 1 hour ago
yes, which lnd version are you running?

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INWHY 1 hour ago
7.1

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INWHY 1 hour ago
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 9.16.30.png
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 9.16.30.png

INWHY 1 hour ago
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 9.17.01.png
Screenshot 2019-10-23 at 9.17.01.png

moli 1 hour ago
so did you run the SCB ? how did you run the "backup" ?

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INWHY 1 hour ago
via exportchanbackup --all > backup

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INWHY 1 hour ago
and exportchanbackup --output_file channel-backup-file

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moli 1 hour ago
but you said you ran a .lnd backup and force closed all your channels? (edited)

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moli 1 hour ago
this is very confusing

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INWHY 1 hour ago
yes, using previous files state. I wonder, am I able to use those static channel backups at the moment? (edited)

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moli 1 hour ago
no

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moli 1 hour ago
you have already closed all your channels with an older state? that's it, the money is gone

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INWHY 1 hour ago
how can I know if the state is older or not?

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moli 1 hour ago
the backup was a few days old

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INWHY 1 hour ago
as you said even few minutes old backup is enough to cause a breach, which makes them totally unusable

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INWHY 1 hour ago
in my case, I have veeam backups for the last ~320 days + SCBs, + paper backup, and after force-closing all channels which LND approved and initiated, my funds are lost and unavailable

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moli 1 hour ago
if you run an older backup, lnd still can run but when you force close channels, that's when the breach happens

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INWHY 1 hour ago
understood, my final conclusion is that just need to forgot about backups there... or need to make totally live SCBs every single second... (edited)

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moli 1 hour ago
after the power outage if your current .lnd data could not start, you could use the SCB recovery and it would ask your peers to close channels and you would get your money back

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INWHY 1 hour ago
I was unable to recover the channels from the SCB, because there was an error that those channels are already existing, about the peers there are more than 400 channels, just cannot contact them. (edited)

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INWHY 45 minutes ago
I bet that exchanges will start using that technology only* if they have a good and stable backup structure... without it only enthusiast like me will rush on it (edited)

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INWHY 40 minutes ago
@moli thank you for all that info. appreciated

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moli 38 minutes agonp, sorry for your loss.. but please this is so fundamental i hope you would do some reading or asking for help before doing something drastic next time

:+1::skin-tone-3:

Submitted October 23, 2019 at 12:18PM by ZipoTm https://ift.tt/31EPqSI